Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter


10 thoughts on “Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

  1. says: Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Ok doneTainter's work is an opus How could it be otherwise with a title like that? Yet it lives up to the title aiming an

  2. says: Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology This is a short dense book about a difficult subject Tainter does a good job with his argument which I admit even I though I

  3. says: Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter First off this is like a long academic paper than a book Tainter has a thesis whereby he attempts to explain the

  4. says: Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter Very good much better than Jared Diamond's Collapse and much convincing than Spengler or ToynbeeIt was also deeply disturbing the Ik amazed me in chapter 1 and the statistics in chapter 4 were extremely dismal and tie in far too well

  5. says: Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review Now THIS is a fantastic book Normally I am a bit skeptical of the analysis of historians as they seem to often have soft logic often recurring t

  6. says: Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter What do we talk about when we talk about the collapse of complex societies? Tainter performs a service to posterity throwing out all the old rhetoric of moaners and naysayers blindly reading their own bias into the tea le

  7. says: review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter This book seems to be the workhorse of the industrial collapse intellectual set Jared DiamondDerrick JensenJohn Michael Greer etc It is a fairly straightforward academic entry in the anthropological search for a grand theory to explain collapse It is in this way a sort of counterpart to Earle and Johnson's The Evolution of Human Societies From Foraging Group to Agrarian State which advanced explanations for increases in

  8. says: Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter

    review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter 1 for the painfully dry academic style without a drop of liveliness or wit 1 for not convincing me assumptions and ignoring evidence that did not support his position Were I not typing this review out on a tablet I might be elouent but here's the gist of my reactionPage 50 trying to refute resource depletion as a cause of collapse As it becomes apparent to members or administrators of a complex society that a resource base is de

  9. says: Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter While on a trip to Peru I decided to tackle Joseph Tainter’s The Collapse of Complex Societies I learned of this book from Thomas Homer Dixon’s excellent The Upside of Down Since we were once again headed to see some ruins I thought this an appropriate time to approach this book although in the case of the Incas we can easily

  10. says: review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter

    Read [The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology] ☆ Joseph A. Tainter review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. Tainter Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review What was useful to meI The work provides a concise list of common threats to any organized large scale social entityII Tainter makes the terminological distinction between 'Civilizations' and 'Complex Societies'

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Read The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology

The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Free download Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Carries lessons not just for the study of ancient societies but for the members of all such societies in both the present and future Dr Tainter describes nearly two dozen cases of collapse and reviews than 2000 years of explanations. Now THIS is a fantastic book Normally I am a bit skeptical of the analysis of historians as they seem to often have soft logic often recurring to very subjective values or opinions and telling long and boring stories about concepts such as heroism some small details series of random eveniments and such things which are all good and great but seem to me to have little explanatory power NOT THIS BOOK though I was delighted to see the author picking a large spectrum of historical events in the treatment of hist subject trying to pick common and logical similarities and differences that would allow one to form a bigger picture I was delighted that he found through his research evidence of some things i have long partially suspected and that he is uite mercilessly critical of theories which ascribe collapse of certain societies to invasions moral weakness natural events or resource depletions even though often the same civilization had not that long ago proven than resilient and able to deal with relatively bigger invasions resource shocks or series of coincidences Instead his analysis of Mayan Roman Cacoan civilizations and others but these mainly lead him to arrive at a bigger theory that seems to explain much better and analytically all of the cases and even cases which are given unsatisfactory answers by other historians leading them to say obscure stuff such as this great civilization disappeared suddenly and without reasonThe explanation he finds has to do with society s investment in complexity in the initial stages people get great advantages from investments in society complexity security protection organization safety against random but recurring events however as they grow societies reach levels so complex that additional investments in complexity produce diminishing returns until they reach a point where it pays for them to go back to lower levels of complexity I also love that unlike most authors he does not have this super negative view of these collapses that one often encounters and far from threating them as failures to adapt realizes that they are in fact great successes in adapting even though the adaptation might be in a direction that many dislike He identifies many of our biases including the biases of historians and culture people to see these collapses as negative events even though they might have been positive steps for the actual real people living then then there living in an advanced complex world we only see values in such complex things and historiansarcheologistsart collectorsphilosophers feel value only in the works of complex civilizations as they are grand and imposing and well kept even if they were produced at the edge of the precipice at great social and human costs and in inefficient ways Of the many fantastic examples in the book one of the most interesting is the fall of the roman empire in the 4 5th centuries when a traditional historian might say that roman provinces fell under barbarian conuest the author brings forth evidence that many of the peasants long exhausted by the roman bureaucratic parasitic aparatus not only became apathetic towards the roman empire but actually invited the barbarians to conuer them as their lives would improve with lower taxes for the same or better levels of protection Indeed they were to be proven right in time as for the centuries to come these decentralized units were better able to protect at much smaller costs I find such historical examples very interesting and relevant in our age when centralization and bureaucratization has become such a huge taxing burden on the back of society This and the many historical examples of what has in the past happened to the freedommoneywealth of the peoples who s governments have constantly expanded first naturally and then by growing deeper and deeper into debt should be an eye opening view into the past for things that are probably going to happen again and again well at least as long as humans remain humans P Brilliant book I warmly recommend it to anybody who s willing to learn from the experiences of our grand grand grand grand grand fathers

review Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Õ Joseph A. TainterThe Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology

The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Free download Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF He then develops a new and far reaching theory that accounts for collapse among diverse kinds of societies evaluating his model and clarifying the processes of disintegration by detailed studies of the Roman Mayan and Chacoan collaps. 1 for the painfully dry academic style without a drop of liveliness or wit 1 for not convincing me assumptions and ignoring evidence that did not support his position Were I not typing this review out on a tablet I might be elouent but here s the gist of my reactionPage 50 trying to refute resource depletion as a cause of collapse As it becomes apparent to members or administrators of a complex society that a resource base is deteriorating it seems most reasonable to assume that some rational steps are taken toward a resolution The alternative assumption of idleness in the face of disaster reuires a leap of faith at which we may rightly hesitate Indeed it might be rational to do something but look around you We don t We know oil is finite yet we do little about it We know in the USA that salinization of soil in California where most of our produce is grown is an increasing problem that will lead to starvation We do nothing about it We know that monoculture farming is a bad idea yet we subsidize it We know cities like Phoenix Los Angeles and Las Vegas are unsustainable because of lack of water but we can t even bring ourselves to do some tiny thing like outlaw lawns golf courses or fountains in front of the casinos much less write strict sane zoning laws We are in short fookin idiots One would think we long for collapse and the sooner the better Our motto may as well be idleness in the face of disasterHowever it was good to reconsider reading his ideas that collapse or the fall of a civilization likely is actually nothing worse than a decline decentralization collapse only of the elite with the overtaxed working people basically taking their marbles and going home He bemoans rich white guy art and literature disappearing leading to a dark age However I would say that folk arts are every bit as good as high art which gets defined as high only by the makers of it after all You ll never convince me Duchamp s urinal in a museum is vastly superior to an Appalachian woman s lovely uilt sorry to saySome of what he said let me to think of England in the last hundred years Here s a nation that has collapsed by choosing to stop being an empire and instead become a stable small state a lower form It didn t hurt them at all and its citizens are in many ways better off than I am Therefore collapse can be good and it needn t be feared

Joseph A. Tainter Õ 8 review

The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology Free download Î eBook, ePUB or Kindle PDF Political disintegration is a persistent feature of world history The Collapse of Complex Societies though written by an archaeologist will therefore strike a chord throughout the social sciences Any explanation of societal collapse. This is a short dense book about a difficult subject Tainter does a good job with his argument which I admit even I though I disagree with it in part His argument boils down to a few key points1 Major civilizations tend to experience an early period of rapid growth through the low hanging fruit of available territory resources etc When 2 This growth inevitably leads to specialization stratification and complexity which initially serves growth3 The civilization plateau s and the structure established to help it grow becomes a part of society4 When the low hanging fruit disappears further expansion be it territorial trade oriented becomes less and less profitable and eventually starts to work against the civilization5 Finally the complex structure begins to a positive drain on the civilization as it has to spend and to get less and less But now we depend on the structure which has become brittle and like a house of cards easy to knock overTainter supports his theory well from civilizations across time and uses very obvious info like territory and some other unusual information like crop yields colonial administrations and so on No doubt there are many lessons for economists hereBut while his book is valuable it has big holesIn his uest for absolute objectivity he rejects all value judgment theories of collapse If you can t measure it it s not useful A civilizations beliefs or our interpretation of those beliefs are not objective and so have nothing to contribute to the study of collapse So after summarizing the work of people like Gibbon Toynbee Spengler and others he essentially dismisses with a wave of his hand But as CS Lewis once pointed out very few people are actually German economists Any study of history must involve people which will involve than economic exchangesThis over emphasizing of economics shows up in what is actually a thought provoking idea What happens after collapse he argues may actually be beneficial to society because it removes a great deal of inefficiency that the old system labored under Collapse might be the cleansing forest fires of history events to almost welcomeThis sounds good on paper but no actual human being who lived through collapses would have agreed with him Imagine living in Western Europe ca 550 AD and thinking Boy I sure am glad for the fall of Rome Of course our ramshackle village could be overrun destroyed and our people pillaged who knows when by some Goth Ostrogoth Visigoth Vandal Hun or some other kind of Goth I have forgotten about But I ll take that any day over the economic inefficiency of the late Roman EmpireTo augment Chesterton s oft uoted phrase If civilization is worth doing it s worth doing badly

  • Paperback
  • 262
  • The Collapse of Complex Societies New Studies in Archaeology
  • Joseph A. Tainter
  • English
  • 14 December 2020
  • 9780521386739